Curse

Koricen · Apr 25, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

EDIT: The following tests were performed before the May 1st update that fixed Winter. They show how Winter was previously bugged, but now that it has been fixed the test results would be different upon repeat. (See Post #38 on Page 2 of this thread.)

With the obvious rise of players doing the Hell's Precipice mission, I feel it necessary to bring this up. Consistantly I see people looking for a Winter Ranger or a Winter Ranger LFG. These people need to realize winter does not work how they think it does. Many times I have tried to explain this and have not only been insulted, but occasionally kicked out of groups because they don't know how to pay attention. The way Winter works is that the damage of the spell you are casting is calculated based on its level and the enemy's armor, and then is converted to cold damage. That means the damage is of the same strength, only a different element.

[Winter]

Flare, 12 Fire Magic, without Winter:

Flare, 12 Fire Magic, with Winter:

Stone Daggers, 12 Earth Magic, without Winter (the second dagger hit while he was using Healing Signet)

Stone Daggers, 12 Earth Magic, with Winter

Lightning Javelin, 12 Air Magic, without Winter

Lightning Javelin, 12 Air Magic, with Winter

Those pictures are from testing it on a Hand of the Titan, but I tested it on all types of titans in Hell's Precipice and the results were concurrent.

I also tested the Greater Conflagration/Winter combo (using the spirits in both possible orders). I used a 14-27 white bow and came up with the following results:

Bow only: 50 hits, 5.46 average damage per hit, highest damage = 10, lowest damage = 4

Bow with GC: 50 hits, 3.5 average damage, highest = 7, lowest=3

Bow with GC then Winter: 50 hits, 3.8 average damage, highest=7, lowest=3

Bow with Winter then GC: 50 hits, 3.94 average damage, highest=7, lowest=2

I hope this shows how Winter will not help in Hell's Precipice or anywhere else if used in this manner. This may or may not be a bug, depending on how you look at it, as it says the elemental damage is converted to cold damage, which it is, just that it is converted after the damage is already calculated. So if you plan on bringing Winter you won't be helping the group, and if you bring GC+Winter you will be hindering your team.

graverobber2 · Apr 25, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

not sure, but aren't the monsters in Hell's Precipe weak against cold dmg?

norad · Apr 25, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

yah. i think they are. this guys trippin mad.

Hiero · Apr 25, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koricen

This may or may not be a bug

I always considered it bugged, but anyway it is rubbish.

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 25, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

You people are reading it wrong (first two repliers). The damage is calculated as the element it is, and THEN Winter takes effect. For example, if you cast Rodgort's Invocation, the following will happen in this order:

-Damage is calculated, reduced due to the titans natural +AL vs.fire.
-THEN, the damage type is changed to cold, having no effect since the damage was already calculated.
-Any effects that trigger on cold damage are checked (Spinal Shivers, possibly, but I doubt it, Conjure Frost).

Running cold damage skills/weapons works fine, it's just that winter is applied afterwards.

Mordiego · Apr 25, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

That's an interesting point U made Koricen. Will have to put to test myself. No doubts Titans are weak to Cold damage, but I wasn't aware Winter is such a crap Spirit and won't work the way we expect it do.

Miska Bow · Apr 25, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

To the OP:

I play ranger and want to thank you for making this research. I've been laughed at and kicked out of group too for not using it.

Thx again.

Rushin Roulette · Apr 25, 2008, 10:49 AM // 10:49

The Spirit works great together with [Spinal Shivers]... but other than that its a rubish spirit as it is now.

Washi · Apr 25, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by graverobber2

not sure, but aren't the monsters in Hell's Precipe weak against cold dmg?

Reading comprehension FTW cadet.

On topic: Pugs are bad, and always will be. They still use tanks and bad skills, it's just the way it is.

Johny bravo · Apr 25, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Question as it is been a while since I have played this mission.

Does Mark of rdogort trigger if winter is present?

Also I know we used it cause I would always run as an SS/Spinal shivers necro so basically I keep one imp or risen ashen hulk tied up while the team worked on the other.

guitarfreak192002 · Apr 25, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

yeah winter is either bugged or complete garbage. Now if it worked the way everyone thinks it does it would be an awesome skill. How sweet would a fire ele be in Hell's dealing straight up cold damage.

Ben-A-BoO · Apr 25, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

This bug is known since August 2007.
Wiki Talk: Winter
Official Wiki Winter
Old Guru Bug report

But nevertheless worth bringing it up (See recent bug fix to Spirit Bond etc. ~ sometimes it just takes a while ~)

Jenn · Apr 25, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

I had to address the same thing in my group yesterday. It was a bit of work to reassure the ranger that no, no. You REALLY don't need [skill]Winter[/skill] for this mission. Lol @ the people in denial. This has been known for quite some time. It's really a rather useless skill.

Pick Me · Apr 25, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

okay, give this statement is true:

Winter only applies to damage after everything else is calculated (ie: armor, resitances, etc.). Thus spinal shivers/shivers of dread and Rodgorts will be affected.

This then would apply that armor you have against cold is also useless, since your defense is applied after the initial damage has been calculated. Which would mean a Ranger's armor vs Frost is useless with winter.

Would this also apply with Greater Conflaguration then? As in, a Warrior has great defense vs physical damage. So under GC, another warror would do damage as if it was physical instead of fire damage (for armor calculations ony), right?

Now, what happens when a Dervish uses Ebond Dust Aura + Dust Cloak while under the effects of Winter? Your weapon is considered to be earth (b/c of DC) so the damage it ends up inflicting will be cold, but EDA still blinds right?

Also, a creature hexed with Iron Mist, does the damage from lightning = cold while under the effects of winter? or does the damage still be considered lightning for damage considerations?

Same with Stone Striker, I think I read that this spell will convert damage into Earth once the enchanter gets hit. Which takes precidence? Winter upon impact or Stone Striker upon impact?

The Meth · Apr 25, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

okay, give this statement is true:

Winter only applies to damage after everything else is calculated (ie: armor, resitances, etc.). Thus spinal shivers/shivers of dread and Rodgorts will be affected.

This then would apply that armor you have against cold is also useless, since your defense is applied after the initial damage has been calculated. Which would mean a Ranger's armor vs Frost is useless with winter.

Would this also apply with Greater Conflaguration then? As in, a Warrior has great defense vs physical damage. So under GC, another warror would do damage as if it was physical instead of fire damage (for armor calculations ony), right?

Now, what happens when a Dervish uses Ebond Dust Aura + Dust Cloak while under the effects of Winter? Your weapon is considered to be earth (b/c of DC) so the damage it ends up inflicting will be cold, but EDA still blinds right?

Also, a creature hexed with Iron Mist, does the damage from lightning = cold while under the effects of winter? or does the damage still be considered lightning for damage considerations?

Same with Stone Striker, I think I read that this spell will convert damage into Earth once the enchanter gets hit. Which takes precidence? Winter upon impact or Stone Striker upon impact?

As said in OP, greater conflagration will calculate damage AFTER the conversion, so using it DOES reduce damage for the titans, and for people with + armor vs fire. I am 99.9% sure stone striker will work to base the damage on earth, THEN the final damage type is converted by winter, but the +armor vs earth is what would be applied instead of +armor vs water.

As to your other questions, I don't know. Who uses winter anyway?

Th Fooster · Apr 25, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

the guy is right.. the team wont deal more damage. tis the same the point of witnter is so the team can all take mantra of fros and you guys take reduced damage... exept one problem.... they use wild blow.. so that makes winter redundent.
you deal the same damage and take the same... People used to use winter wwaay back before factions because water magic SUKED sooo bad and rechares... and firestorm used to actualy be good.. and monsters didnt run out of aoe back then.Winter is obloete and makes no impact on the team over all. I personaly used water magic and mantra of frost/frigid armour and did fine. the mosters took the same damage weather it is fire or earth or air... dont matter.The spark fly imps are the only ones particularly vulnerable to cold damage.
the rest is the same and winter is redundant. try a prot monk as your second monk with around 10 in healing and use gift of health to help spot heal.
Or make the entire group use frigid armour .. if its that bgi of a deal. i can go on and on about ways to deal with that mission and winter is a waste.

N1ghtstalker · Apr 25, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

so to make it short
damage stays the same and the element changes

Bowstring Badass · Apr 25, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

This bug is known since August 2007.
Wiki Talk: Winter
Official Wiki Winter
Old Guru Bug report

But nevertheless worth bringing it up (See recent bug fix to Spirit Bond etc. ~ sometimes it just takes a while ~)

Yet anet still refuses to fix bugs we point out so much. But seriously just do stuff with out henchies and heroes when grouping...

But yeah nicely done.

Taisayacho · Apr 25, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by norad

yah. i think they are. this guys trippin mad.

Obviously you don't believe a screenshot? It's true, winter does nothing.

Coloneh · Apr 25, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taisayacho

Obviously you don't believe a screenshot? It's true, winter does nothing.

winter changes the element after damage calculation. it does alot, just not exactly whay you would expect.